The Second Circle Series 4: BAD SEX
Bonus episode: Can audio porn boost my sex drive?
She’s spent the last six months talking to people about the low points in their sex lives. Now, heavily pregnant, Franki’s struggling to find the spark herself. Could listening to audio porn be the solution? She grabs her headphones to find out.
The Second Circle is produced, written, and hosted by Franki Cookney | Audio production: Anouszka Tate
Theme music: Roof - Big Spoon (Instrumental Version) | Incidental music: _91Nova - Moiety, Maybe - The Universe is a Bitch, _91Nova - Shell Games | All music courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Audio porn: “Don’t Be Late” written and read by Euphemise This, “Free Use Secretary” written and read by Girl On The Net, “E-stim” written and read by Jenby Doll, “Sat On His Face” written by David of The Big Gay Review and read by Luke. | All audio porn clips courtesy of girlonthenet.com
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Bonus episode: Can audio porn boost my sex drive?
Karen Gurney 00:00
People sit and wait to feel like sex, and then act on it. And that just isn't going to happen. It's happens for some people, but for the majority of people in long term relationships, that doesn't happen. And what's needed instead, is a kind of purposeful and intentional way of nurturing desire and that’s responsive desire.
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 00:20
Of all the subjects I’ve explored in this series, I keep find myself coming back to this. The challenge of maintaining desire in a long-term relationship.
There’s an expression in journalism: report the story, don’t become the story. But. I write about sex. So obviously there are going to be times when the personal and professional overlap. And this is one of those times. Because, at the end of the day, I am in a long-term relationship.
This idea of needing to intentionally nurture desire is something I can relate to. And, from the feedback I’ve had on the series, I know a lot of other people do too. Rather than shy away from the personal, I decided it might be interesting to lean into it.
So I had an idea. Over the next month I would to conduct a little experiment. I would find a “purposeful and intentional” way to nurture my sex drive and I would actively do it. And then I would report back on it.
[THEME MUSIC]
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 01:35
You’re listening to The Second Circle. This is Series 4: BAD SEX. I’m Franki Cookney and this is your bonus episode! It’s fair to say the format of this episode is going to be a bit looser, a bit chattier, a bit more personal.
But we are still talking about sex. And needless to say the stories you’ll hear and the language we use can be pretty explicit so, as always, listener discretion is advised.
If you’ve listened to the whole series you’ll know that I’ve spent the last six episodes exploring what makes sex bad. I’ve looked at the messages we get about sex and how we internalised them, I’ve explored the culture of sex positivity and the impact of capitalism, I’ve talked to people about pleasure, about their bodies, about desire and what we can do to get better at communicating about sex.
For this bonus episode I wanted to do something a little bit different. See, you can’t spend six months making a series like this without reflecting on your own sex life. And one of the things that happened to me during that six months is that I got pregnant. Yep, I had a baby. My second child was born in May 2022 so a lot of the time when I was working on the podcast, I was also dealing with the various physical and emotional effects of pregnancy. Every time I had a conversation with someone about desire, about the things that stand in the way of desire, I felt acutely aware that I was going through something that was having an enormous impact on my own sex drive.
[THEME MUSIC]
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 03:16
At the start of the show, you heard Dr Karen Gurney talking about the need to purposefully engage with our libido. She’s the clinical psychologist and psychosexual therapist we heard from in Episode 5. During our conversation, I mentioned that as a working mum with limited free time, getting in the mood for sex was something I definitely found hard, sometimes.
Franki Cookney 03:41
You know, one of the things that I struggle with is changing gear from okay, I'm at work all day and then I go pick up my son and then I bring him home and I give him tea and Then he has a bath, and I put him to bed. And then, and then what? I'm just supposed to magically be out for sex. So something I could genuinely and I've thought about doing this, I haven't actually tried it maybe I should, as an experiment for this episode is to
Karen Gurney 04:04
I love experiments. So much. Please do it!
Franki Cookney 04:07
Especially when it's on yourself! I mean, it's entirely unscientific, but maybe I'll give it a go. What I could see working for me is to then because I somehow I actually sometimes do this with like, mindfulness exercises, like I go and listen to my Calm app, and do like 10 minutes mindfulness, just to kind of like decompress from having got the day done. If I switched out my mindfulness, maybe like some erotica, or something, maybe that will kind of set me up for feeling a bit more interested in sex in the evening. But I could see myself getting into that, right. I wonder whether for a lot of people, there might be a barrier there in terms of thinking, Oh, I shouldn't have to use this external material,
Karen Gurney 04:48
Absolutely.
Franki Cookney 04:50
I should just be able to hang out with my partner and feel that way.
Karen Gurney 04:52
Absolutely. People feel as though they should always feel desire for their sexual partner because they had it in the beginning. It's just not backed up by science. So if you're planning to have sex with the same person for a long time, without intentional action, for most people, desire will decline and sex will become tricky. It requires nurturing it requires thought. So the idea that you shouldn't have to work at it, that it should just be present as a drive. And that if you're attracted to them, you should just easily be able to get in the gift sex. It just doesn't hold up.
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 05:46
I was in the very early stages of pregnancy when I had this chat with Karen so I didn’t mention it at the time but it’s fair to say that the physical changes I was going through, not to mention the fatigue, were a big barrier to getting in the mood for sex.
Not everyone feels like this, I should definitely say that! I have met and spoken to plenty of people who actually felt more horny during pregnancy. But for me, there were times when I was really struggling to find that spark. It wasn’t gone altogether but I was finding it harder than usual to tap into, I guess.
When I made the suggestion about switching out my meditation app for some audio porn and using myself as a guinea pig, I was only half serious. But over the next few months I kept coming back to this conversation in my head and wondering… could it work? Could audio porn actually help boost my sex drive? And the more I thought about it, the more I realised, fuck it, I actually want to try this. But in order for the experiment to really work, I couldn’t do it on my own. I was going to have to to rope in a partner, namely my husband, Rob.
I’m not gonna lie, Rob has been given shit in the past by friends and colleagues for this kind of thing. But he is nothing if not game! In fact, if you’ve listened to earlier series of The Second Circle you’ll know that we used to record the show together. But the experiment that I have in mind for this episode is deeply personal. So, of course, I needed to check in with him first.
Franki 07:21
You opted not to come up in your dressing gown then?
Rob 07:24
I mean, I had trackie bottoms much more convenient
Franki 07:27
I was quite looking forward to your sort of Hugh Hefner vibe. Is that who I mean?
Rob 07:32
Yeah, that is who you mean?
Franki 07:33
Is he the playboy mansion one?
Rob 07:35
My Playboy mansion with precisely one bunny.
Franki 07:38
[Laughs]
Rob 07:39
One pregnant bunny.
Franki 07:42
So Rob, hello!
Rob 07:43
Hiya!
Franki 07:44
How do you feel about being back on the podcast?
Rob 07:46
I know. Well, I was sort of kicked off it wasn't I?
Franki 07:48
You weren't kicked off the podcast. It's just that it became more integrated into my actual career.
Rob 07:57
It outgrew me. That's what happened.
Franki 07:59
Yes, I think that's fair. So I've talked before about the fact that you sometimes get roped into my work, not against your will, but maybe against your better judgement.
Rob 08:13
Yeah, it's definitely something that I have to think about. In terms of how people in our world in our circle of friends might react to what they're hearing, there was a period where people at work discovered your podcast, and we're talking about it and giving me a little bit of, you know, minor stick about it.
Franki 08:31
I think I just want to like, put it on the record that, you know, I do always run this stuff past you. And I'm not just out here being like, “This is what our sex life is like!” And actually, you're kind of behind the scenes dying of cringe.
Rob 08:45
To be fair, you don't talk about our sex life very much.
Franki 08:49
No, I don't. And actually, this is what I want to do with this episode is probably about as personal as I've really got, which is sort of what I wanted to... Making this whole series., inevitably, I've ended up reflecting on my own sex life. And you know, whether things apply to me and my feeling has been, making this podcast series, that these things can be a bit harder for men to talk about. Maybe especially sex drive. I think I told you this actually, like what while I was making the podcast series, when I was looking for case studies, I didn't have any guys come forward to talk to me about sex drive, none at all, which I think is quite interesting.
Rob 09:31
Yeah, I'm not surprised by that. I think men will talk about sex much more in the abstract.
Franki 09:36
Also, like specifically with sex drive, unless you're kind of I guess what I wonder about sex drive is is there something that's maybe a bit of a challenge to masculinity?
Rob 09:46
Oh, definitely. 100% Yeah, I mean, I think if a man admits to having low libido that's going to be wrapped up with in their sort of masculinity, virility, idea of the self. So I think there is an expectation that men are going to be horny. And that any discussion of what impedes that is necessarily bound up with the identity of the the kind of personality and how men see themselves as being perceived in the world more generally. You know, I think probably that's changing. But society changes very slowly, right.
Franki 10:23
Yeah, I wanted to ask you, though, because obviously I said a minute ago, that I think that talking about desire and sex drive can feel a bit intimidating, like maybe more intimidating for guys because it's, it's bound up in ideas of masculinity, like how you should be experiencing sex drive, right? So of course, I wanted to ask you whether there was stuff in Episode Five that you felt you could relate to, like the brakes and accelerators that Emily Nagoski talks about. That's, you know, the stuff that kind of activates or inhibits arousal. I wonder if you feel like you know what your brakes and accelerators are?
Rob 11:00
I don't think they're very complicated. I mean, at the beginning of the episode, you talk about you give an example of a couple that, you know, they start off having a some, you know, very passionate love affair and having sex all the time and all this and then life gets in the way, essentially. And I think these are, the obvious thing is you get to the I mean, I've been having relatively stressful time at work recently. And you get to the end of the day, and it's just like, your brain is fried. Yeah, physically tired. If you've got kids, you know, that's happening. You get them to bed, then you go to have dinner. And by the time that's all done, it's like, you're just exhausted, right? So of course, that stuff gets in the way. That's an obvious brake.
Franki 11:40
I'm laughing, because that's, that's almost verbatim how I described my own experience.
Rob 11:46
Well, right! And you know, these are the realities of life, and it's hard to get away from them.
Franki 11:51
I think what happens to me a lot of the time is that my head just gets absolutely filled up with the mental load of work and parenting and life admin. And now of course, there's the pregnancy on top of the app. And so my desire kind of feels like it sort of just gets shunted off to one side, like it gets just gets a bit forgotten about. So I think I have told you already a little bit about what I what I want to do with this episode. But let me lay it out for you again, basically, my plan is to listen to audio porn every day, for a month or so. And I guess what I'm hoping is that that's gonna sort of bring that spark of desire back into my everyday in more of a conscious way. Using audio erotica or audio porn to just just keep it a little bit more at the forefront of my mind so that it's not quite so easy to dismiss and be like, I’ll deal with that tomorrow. I've got too much on.
Rob 12:53
Yeah, man, I'm down.
Franki 12:54
So basically, are you up for doing this experiment?
Rob 12:59
Yeah, man, I'll listen to some audio porn.
Franki 13:01
You're gonna listen to audio porn too? Yeah, well, oh, cool. I thought you were just gonna kind of be the recipient of me doing the experiment.
Rob 13:08
I mean, that sounds good
Franki 13:09
A bystander
Rob 13:10
Yeah, I'll do that too.
Franki 13:11
Collateral damage, if you will
Rob 13:13
That's very much how I see myself
Franki 13:14
Are you okay with being caught in the crossfire of this experiment?
Rob 13:18
Yes, please.
Franki 13:19
And I guess the other thing that I want to ask you is whether you will be up for coming back to talk to me at the end of the experiment and kind of discuss how it went and what we learned from it. What we learned from the journey.
Rob 13:33
Yeah, no, 100% Yeah, of course.
Franki 13:35
Okay, cool. Thank you. Consent received! Although important to note that you can withdraw at any time although please don't cuz it will ruin the episode. I really need this to come together. Shall we go and order takeaway?
[Music]
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 13:52
Now that I had the go-ahead from Rob, it was time to find myself some audio porn! If you know anything about sexual wellness you will know that audio porn is absolutely huge right now. Audio erotica startups regularly secure multi-million dollar investments. Everywhere you look in tech and lifestyle media, there are headlines asking some version of “is audio porn the next big thing for women?”
Actually audio erotica has been a thing for ages. The reason it’s gone mainstream now is partly down to our evolving understanding of sexuality. In 2014 sex education platform OMGYes and The Kinsey Institute embarked on a big research project into cisgendered women’s sexual pleasure. One of the things that emerged from this research was that huge numbers of women use something called “mental framing” to help them turn off distracting thoughts and focus on pleasure. There are lots of forms this can take but for a lot of people mental framing is basically… fantasising. Running through scenarios in your head that help increase your arousal and enhance your pleasure.
If you’re a woman listening to this you might be thinking well, yeah, duh. But having such large-scale research down on paper (peer-reviewed paper no less) was quite a big deal. Combine this with the podcast boom of the last decade and suddenly you have a big market for sexy storytelling. And in many ways, audio is the perfect medium for erotica because it’s so private, right? It’s just you and your headphones.
So… you’ll be wanting some recommendations, right? OK well, there are apps like Dipsea, Quinn, and Maeve, there are websites like Femtasy and Girl On The Net, there are podcasts such as Bawdy Storytelling and Kiss Me Quicks Erotica podcast and don’t forget you can almost always buy your favourite erotica authors in audio book form.
[Music]
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 16:20
I chose Dipsea because I liked the app’s interface and also they offered a monthly subscription which worked for me because I wasn’t sure if this was something I was going to want to continue with long-term. I downloaded the app, browsed the library and picked out some stories that caught my eye. Now all I needed was ten minutes to myself to actually listen to it…
Franki [voicenote] 16:58
Okay, so this is me sitting on my bed about to listen to some audio porn for the first time. Um, I can hear my husband putting our four-year-old son to bed in the next door bedroom and getting a bit cross with him cuz he's messing about, I don't know what he is doing. So that’s a little bit distracting, but I'm gonna put my headphones on. But I think that's a pretty good kind of example of, you know, what I'm up against in any given day in terms of being able to actually change gear and kind of really tap into my sexuality and my desire, which I know is there because even just earlier today I was reading something, looking at something and I, you know, I felt that little, and I keep calling it the little spark now cuz that's what Tabitha called it. I felt that little spark of interest, like, oh, okay. But then by the time I get to this time, which is it's half past seven now I'm just like, I'm fucking done. I just want to eat my dinner and go to bed. So we'll see. I'm just waiting for the app to download, which is why I'm just chatting to my phone. And then I'm gonna put my headphones on and pick a story and I'll check back in with you afterwards. Ooooooh. <laugh> How horny am I gonna be? <laugh>.
[Audio porn clip]
Actor 1 18:28
I’ll stop by at 8 and we can go to the party together, yeah?” I turned and caught her extremely hopeful expression. “Okay, just don’t be late.” At 8.15pm there was a knock on my hotel room door. I rolled my eyes at the inevitability of her tardiness as I opened the door. Micha was wearing a very short figure-hugging dress; almost inappropriately short for a work event, which gave me an idea. I gestured for her to enter. “You’re early so I’m not ready yet. You’ll have to come in,” I joked. She blushed as she laughed, then tentatively stepped into the room. As the door closed, I looked her up and down then sternly asked her if she thought the dress was suitable for room full of her colleagues. “Maybe there’s one or two I might wanna fuck,” she smirked, egging me on.
Franki [voice note] 19:14
Hello. I am back. I listened to a horny story. It was twelve minutes long and, yeah, it was pretty good. I enjoyed it. Let's, yeah, quick, quick critique of the literature first, and then I'll tell you about the, the sex stuff. When I very first started writing about, audio porn, like in the kind of early days when audio porn was just taking off, I remember listening to a bunch of different ones and they, it was quite a mixed bag, like some of them were quite amateur and so it took a little bit more effort to sort of get into it, but this is really, you know, it's good writing, it's really well performed, and yeah, it kind of, yeah, it grabbed me straight away. So that was good. That was not really, like, I didn't have to do too much of a sort of, uh, leap of faith to believe that something sexy was happening. So that was good. I do get a little bit distracted sometimes if the sex that's being had is something that wouldn't work for me personally, do you know what I mean? Like the stuff they were doing, I was just like, “oh, no, that, that wouldn't make me come.” So it's no good. Which is stupid because like if I watch porn, I don't feel that we're like, obviously most of what I watch in porn is like, not stuff that would actually make me come, but I think because you've got the visual element, you're seeing people's naked bodies and kind of add something. So I don't know that that would be interesting to see whether that persists with audio porn, whether that continues to bother me or whether I'm able to get over it and just enjoy for like, you know, this, this sort of sexy story that it is that the voyeurism, if you like, you know, I don't have to apply it to myself. I can just enjoy hearing about these fictional characters doing what they're doing. So yeah, those are my first initial thoughts, I guess.
In terms of how I'm feeling, I feel pretty relaxed actually. Like, you know, definitely sitting down for ten minutes and just listening to something that's just all about pleasure. You know, I'm not listening to a podcast. I'm not trying to learn anything. I'm not trying to better myself in this moment. I'm just having a nice time. That feels pretty good. And yeah, I mean, I think it did turn me on a bit. I'm gonna be really honest and say that I was not expecting to get super horned up to date anyway. Like, I've had a migraine earlier today. I don't think today is a very sexy day for me, for lots of reasons, but I wanted to get started doing this, I guess to kind of build it up to like, to build the habit and to see whether, you know, I guess my, I'm anticipating that it might be kind of an accumulative thing, like, you know, after doing this for a few days, I might notice a bit of a difference in how I'm feeling, but I would certainly say that straight away I feel kind of like it's helped me relax. Like it's helped me change gear. So that's good. Obviously I could have done that with anything. I could have done that with like my Calm app, with like a meditation. I could have done that with some yoga or, actually I mostly do Pilates, but, you know, whatever it is, I could have had a bath, didn't have to be audio porn to get that relaxation, but maybe there is something in the idea that it is just so, like, it's purely for pleasure. Like it's, it's a self-indulgent thing to do. Just sit down and just listen to some erotica. Yeah, I'll come back to that. I'm gonna keep thinking about that and see how I feel about it as the experiment goes on. Anyway, I'm gonna go downstairs and make dinner now. I am not anticipating having sex this evening. I'm gonna be completely honest, but I'm glad that I've started and I'm excited to see what the next few weeks brings.
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 23:22
I started out this experiment really enthusiastic and excited. But then I missed two days. I missed two days because I was busy and by the time I got to the weekend I was having mixed feelings about the experiment. The main thing bothering me is that I really didn’t want this to feel like a chore. If this was going to work for me I was going to need to reframe it as a pleasure, as something I was doing because I genuinely wanted to.
Franki [voice note] 23:56
Hello from my bathroom. I've had a rather brilliant idea this evening, which is that I'm going to listen to my erotica in the bath just to, you know, really notch up that self care. I've even lit a candle. I've done all the things, you know! The lighting's nice, got some time to myself, gonna try and really engage with whatever horny story I choose this evening. Now, one of the reasons I'm having a bath is cause I am really suffering with quite bad sciatic pain during pregnancy, like basically back pain. And I'm hoping that the hot water might sort of loosen up the muscles and let me do some stretches. So, you know, it's just to give some context, one of the many, many things that right now is kind of, putting the brakes on my levels of horn, distracting me, making it feel like all a bit too much effort. But we'll see. I'm gonna try and relax into this bath and hopefully feel a bit better afterwards.
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 25:17
OK so… after I recorded that voice note, I got into the bath, hit play on my audio porn app, closed my eyes and within minutes I… fell asleep. Not actually asleep, of course, but I definitely dozed off a little bit. This is actually such a common experience for me. Whenever I use mindfulness to ease stress and clear my mind, nine times out of ten, it sends me to sleep. I've fallen asleep in yoga shavasana more times than I can count. Which probably tells me a bit about what my body *really* needs.
But anyway, I managed to rouse myself to get out the bath, and get dry. I then went back to my bedroom to do a few stretches to try to ease the pain in my back and it was while I was doing that I started to think actually maybe I'd be up for some partnered sex. I felt relaxed, my body felt warm and sensual from my bath and the stretching, and I was already more or less naked! And, yes, I'd been listening to erotica which... while the story itself hadn't made a huge impression on me, I feel like it had slightly opened up that door in my brain, if that makes sense. The door to the room where things can be sexy. Does that sound weird? The idea actually comes from a conversation I had with Emily Nagoski – I didn't include this part of the interview in the original series but let me share it with you now.
Emily Nagoski 26:58
This is a strange story, I’m not sure if it’s going to be helpful! But thile I was in grad school, most of my other big relationships happened while I was in grad school, when I would date people based on how interested I wasn't at work, because I find intellectual stimulation to be like, that room in my brain of curiosity and new ideas, like has a door directly into lust in my brain
Franki Cookney 27:24
Hard same!
Emily Nagoski 27:25
And that's not a place where my husband lives. I married an artist. He's a designer, and he's like, he's a spectacular human being. He's the nicest person I know. He's extremely funny. But he has ADHD and intellectual academic stuff is not what he does. And when I realised that I was really worried that we were fundamentally sexually incompatible, but I kept looking, like what space do we go to together? That is adjacent to the lust room in my brain. And it was play, it was a humour. It was joking.
Franki Cookney 28:03
Cool, I like that. "Adjacent to the lust room."
Emily Nagoski 28:06
Yeah, I sort of started calling it "the room next door to the room where it happens."
Franki Cookney 28:10
Okay! That's snappy!
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 28:12
I can’t quite tell if Emily’s being ironic when she calls it “the room next door to the room where it happens” but for me that kind of relaxation and feeling good in my body turned out to be precisely that! Adjacent to the lust room! Two weeks in, it really did feel like the experiment was working.
Franki [voice note] 28:38
I feel like I need to share with you that I just read the word labia and got a little like, “ooh” feeling. That's how easy it is. And I just think, you know, it really goes to show that like it's there, that the sex drive is there. It doesn't actually take that much to remind my body that, like sexes thing and we like that. But yeah, the real challenge remains getting that up to a sufficient level that the faff of having partnered sex while pregnant out is like, feels worth it. You know, like the, the fun of sex is gonna outweigh the faff of getting my ginormous lumbering body into a position where it can adequately give and receive pleasure. What an image!
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 29:37
As I said from the start, it's not like my desire had gone completely, it's that it was simmering at too low a level to register. Listening to erotica every day wasn't turning me into a squirming, panting mess, what it was doing was just dialling up the heat ever so slightly. It was taking my sex drive from something I could barely notice to something I was a bit more aware of, something I could engage with, if I chose to. By putting the erotic on my radar, I wasn't putting pressure on myself to act, I was merely reminding myself that it was an option and over time, that constant reminder DID turn into interest.
Sometimes, though. It just wasn't possible to push myself over that threshold and I actually had to remind myself a couple of times that that's OK!
Franki [voice note] 30:34
I’m so tired. I'm just so intensely tired. I’m feeling achy, I’m feeling physically uncomfortable. My body isn't working in the way that it normally does when I'm not pregnant, you know? Everything just feels different. Certain positions aren't viable…
Franki [voice note] 31:00
Missed a day yesterday because I was busy and forgot. Well, I didn't forget I just couldn't be arsed but I am determined to carry on and do this experiment properly. So here I am. In my bedroom, got my headphones…
Franki [voice note] 31:21
Audio porn listening session number a billion? No. How many? How many have I listened to now? Must be at least twenty at least. Because I’ve definitely not managed every day but most days…
Franki [voice note] 31:36
I listened to a story earlier that was, like, the premise of the scenario was quite hot to me but then the story itself just didn't really go in the direction that I wanted it to. But anyway, I found myself then thinking about that scenario, but sort of like adding my own details and embellishing it with my own details. Which is interesting because that is something that I do with porn quite a lot, like most visual porn isn't quite what I want it to be but I often will see something in porn and be a bit like ‘meh’, but then I'll find that I use that as like a jumping off point for my own fantasy…
Franki [voice note] 32:25
I’m not… not horny. Like, the spark, the ideas, it's all in there. But I am so huge and tired and everything is awkward and I'm just like, I don't know if I can be bothered to have sex. I don't think it's because there's no desire. I think it's just the logistics of it, I really think is the logistics…
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 33:01
By the end of the month I had definitely seen some changes in how often I found myself consciously thinking about sex, how often I’d felt that spark of interest or curiosity. But had it actually resulted in us having more sex? It was time to check back in with Rob.
Rob 33:18
I'm playing interviewer, I think because, um, you are the one who's been off, uh, guzzling audio porn through your ears, haven't you?
Franki 33:27
Yes. Yeah, we're switching it up a bit. You're gonna ask me questions?
Rob 33:32
Yeah. How did you get on with your audio porn?
Franki 33:35
I, yeah. So I hadn't really listened to any audio porn before I did this experiment except maybe like years ago. And the stuff I listened to years ago, I found a bit cringe. Like the acting wasn't that good and, um, I had, you have to suspend your disbelief quite a lot. But the stuff I was listening to this time, I was genuinely impressed with the quality of the writing, the acting, just how it was produced. And all of that stuff helps.
Rob 34:03
So did you find it sexy? Did it, did it horn you up?
Franki 34:07
<laugh> I think I did find some of the stories sexy. This is like, this is a bit nerdy maybe, but occasionally, um, if I was listening to a story and it happened that whatever the activity they were doing isn't something that would actually make me come, I found it a bit annoying. Like, “ugh, well how did that work?” Like, that would never work for me. And I, a couple of times I had to tell myself like, Franki, you don't, it's not you, you, like, you are being a voyeur if you like, or whatever the audio equivalent is. You're watching someone else have sex. It doesn't, they can have sex in a different way. But yeah, I don't know. I think I was just in that place where I was like, “Ugh, please, that would never get me off.” So a couple of times that happened, but that was a bit more towards the beginning of the experiment when I was still getting used to it. And I think the more I listened to it, the more I just got into the idea of like, oh, this is fun. Just listening to sexy stories. Like the whole experience was sexy. I didn't have to really be able to relate to it to find it sexy.
Rob 35:07
And what about long-term or, or sort of not long-term necessarily, but did, did it have a lasting effect? Did it boost your sex drive, do you think?
Franki 35:15
Did it?
Rob 35:15
Because we've talked about before that sex begets sex, right? Yeah. Talking about it or even doing it usually leads to more. So did just the fact that you were listening to these stories and the subject matter was on your mind, did that have any effect?
Franki 25:29
So I guess my question to you would be do you feel like it had an effect on our sex life
Rob 35:38
No, not really.
Franki 35:42
Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, be honest,
Rob 35:44
That's not a complaint. Like, we're in a specific set of circumstances here, right?
Franki 35:46
I wouldn’t say that it kind of made me so horny that I was like, ready to jump you. I think that it definitely sort of, Jesus Christ, I was about to say, “raised awareness” to try and be a bit sexy. Franki, come on! It definitely just made sort of desire and sexual pleasure like a little bit, brought it a little bit more to the forefront of my mind, which I enjoyed.
Rob 36:16
You just didn't then choose to share that with me in, in any way? <laugh>
Franki 36:23
So one of the things that Karen Gurney said in, in, in, uh, episode five, which is about desire, is that oftentimes the people she sees feel like they haven't got much sex drive, but when they actually get to talking to her, um, she realises no, they, they've got some sex drive going on, they're thinking about sex, they're feeling horny. It's just not quite meeting that threshold for action. And I feel like that's sort of what happened to me. Like, I enjoyed it. It did kind of make me feel a bit sexy. It definitely brought the idea of sex to the forefront of my mind, which I enjoyed, just kind of in and of myself. But unfortunately the fact remains that I am pregnant. And so all of the, the barriers
Rob 37:08
<laugh> Very pregnant
Franki 37:10
So all of the barriers that were there, like, you know, the tiredness, the, um, the, you know, the fact that my body's getting bigger, more cumbersome and just like partnered sex is a faff at this point in my pregnancy. Like it's physically difficult. Right. You know, there's Right, just to say we haven't not had sex at all. We have definitely had sex. It's just, um, I wouldn't say it's necessarily increased as a result of the audio porn would that be fair?
Rob 37:37
Yeah, I think that's fair. Um, here's a question. Would you say that it might be useful to someone who is perhaps uptight or is perhaps using the wrong word, but finds it difficult talking about sex or doesn't, you know, access conversation about sex in many other areas? Because it isn't, it's a different medium to approach it, isn't it?
Franki 37:54
Yeah, I actually think that would be a really good situation in which audio porn might be helpful. So I think I would recommend it, um, in terms of, I think it does have the potential to sort of boost your sex drive in terms of bringing kind of sex and desire to the forefront of your mind, as I said. Um, I also think I'd just recommend it because it's quite fun and the stories are all quite short. Like they're all about 10, 15 minutes. So it's not taking loads of time out of your day just to enjoy yourself and kind of tap into pleasure. Um, but yeah, I think what you said about talking about sexist is really good because one of the things I found that I didn't know about in advance, um, is I thought, um, the scripts I was listening to wear a really, really good demonstration of consent and checking in and how to do that in a horny way. Because obviously as we said, it's all scripted, right? So it's, it's dialogue or, or whatever it's called when it's more people so all you are hearing is their voices and they're saying things like, oh, how's that feeling? Like, oh, can I do this? And it totally works and it’s not cringe at all.
Rob 38:59
Actually, now you say that Yeah. You can sort of use it to maybe educate the wrong word, but inform people about those ideas without necessarily being didactic, right?
Franki 39:11
Well it just models it, doesn’t it?
Rob 39:14
Yeah. And it means those, you know, if you do struggle with those ideas, you're not, you don't necessarily feel judged because it's new to you. You don't necessarily feel ashamed. You're just hearing it, you're seeing it enact or you're hearing it enacted.
Franki 39:25
Yeah.Yeah. Which I think could be pretty powerful cuz you know, sex educators and, you know, people like me bang on all the time. Oh, it's really important to communicate. It's really important to be checking in, but until you've heard it or you've done it, it, it's hard to imagine, you know, you can, you can, I can say to somebody, oh, it's a good idea to sort of say, is this okay or is this okay? But until you actually sort of having some experience of that, it's hard to imagine how that is hot. But in the audio porn I was listening to, I thought it was done brilliantly and it was hot.
Rob 40:00
So will you keep it up? Will you make it a regular thing? Will you revisit once in a while?
Franki 40:04
Yeah, probably revisit once in a while. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I just, I think, you know, I don't wanna add listen to audio porn to my to-do list, if you know what I mean. I don't wanna have to feel like, oh, I've got to listen to my audio porn to get horned up. But I did enjoy it and I probably would come back to it. I think obviously now we are a month away from having another baby. So realistically, no, no. <laugh> Probably won't be listening to any audio porn for a bit, but I did think, you know, after I had our first child, it did take me quite a while to sort of get back into my body And feel like it was a sort, a sexual place again.
Rob 40:45
So it could be a sort of, you know, like complimentary medicine.
Franki 40:46
Yeah.
Rob 40:46
You know, the idea of having lots of different things that are all helping you heal or feel a new way, whatever it is.
Franki 40:53
Yeah, I think so
Rob 40:55
It could be part think so of the suite of things, the products that you are using
Franki 40:58
The buffet of, of options
Rob 41:00
The sex buffet, yeah.
[Music]
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 41:03
So, with audio porn officially added to my sex buffet, I was ready to wrap up the experiment and draw my conclusions.
Great sex, especially in a long-term relationship, is not going to be something that magically happens. It is something you have to prioritise, especially if you have big responsibilities in your life. You have to decide to make time and space for it and I think I generally do. But I've realised that it's also important that I don't beat myself up for not being able to prioritise sex all the time.
It seems to me that by recognising the ebbs and flows, not just of my libido, but of the circumstances in my life that can facilitate or limit desire, that’s going the best way to help myself feel sexy again.
And any time I want to get purposeful… I now know where to go.
[Audio porn clips]
Actor 2 41:52
She’s still talking, now chattering quickly and brightly, as if she’s trying to convince herself this is just a normal interview.He uses one hand to hold the tip of his cock at the entrance to her cunt. Spits on the fingers of the other. Smears the saliva liberally around the swollen, taut head of his dick.
Actor 3 42:15
Unfortunately, I knew what was to come. Setting two had me writhing in agony, my legs and butt involuntarily lifting off the ground again to try and find some respite. Then, my tormentor threw me a bone (or so I thought).
Actor 4 42:32
With a couple of strokes, I can feel myself reach orgasm, and as I do, I clench around his tongue and I shoot thick ropes of spunk over his glistening, hairy chest. Without even touching it, his cock spurts into life, and soon our loads are indistinguishable from each other. His chest is a sticky mess and I collapse to the side; panting heavily. I look over, and his face is wet with sweat and saliva. I come in to give him a kiss, and I can taste myself.
[Theme music]
Franki Cookney [voiceover] 43:04
I need to add additional credits here once I know which audio porn clips we’ve used so will record this last voiceover once I know.
Thanks so much for listening, I hope you’ve enjoyed this special bonus episode. If you have, please don’t forget to leave five stars and a review, it really helps boost the show up the rankings and get more people listening.
The Second Circle is produced, written and hosted by me, Franki Cookney. My audio producer for this series was Anouszka Tate. Thanks to my lovely co-host, co-parent and and co-guinea pig Rob.
Special thanks to the brilliant Girl On The Net whose gorgeous, sexy stories you heard peppered throughout this episode. Snippets included “Don’t Be Late” written and read by Euphemise This, “Free Use Secretary” written and read by Girl On The Net, “E-stim” written and read by Jenby Doll, “Sat On His Face” written by David of The Big Gay Review and read by Luke. If those piqued your interest you can find a whole library of audio smut on her website girlonthenet.com.
And of course, I could not have made this show without the incredible support of those who donated to my crowdfunder. Making this series was a huge experiment in it’s own right and this bonus episode marks the end of what has been a truly wild ride. Thank you so much for being part of it.
[Ends]
Bonus episode: Can audio porn boost my sex drive?